Annecke tuner

Jeg har forgæves søgt efter en vejledning, der beskriver indstillingen af en Annecke Universal Transmatch Tuner.

Der er en drejkondensator (Sender) til venstre, en rullespole i midten og en drejekondensator (Antenne) til højre. Begynder man med at finde et SWR minimum ved at dreje på rullespolen eller hvad?

Vy 73 de OZ8ZY Jørgen

Svar til #1:

Jeg formoder at din Annecke Universal Transmatch Tuner er uden split-capacitor på indgangen:
https://www.dj0ip.de/antenna-matchboxes/a-n-n-e- c-k-e/universal-transmatch-300w/
backup:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230208000826/https ://www.dj0ip.de/antenna-matchboxes/a-n-n -e-c-k-e/universal-transmatch-300w/
Citat: "...
Note the word "original". Originally, the variable capacitor on the TX side was a dual-capacitor (voltage divider). Later versions of the W1ICP's Ultimate Transmatch as well as Annecke's Universal Transmatch did not include this luxury. It has been argued by some that the split capacitor on the input side was not necessary
..."

I så fald er det "blot" en CLC T-led antennetuner:

Start på side 46 venstre spalte - og frem:

Getting the Most Out of Your T-Network Antenna Tuner:
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/i nfo/pdf/9501046.pdf
backup:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230608181815/http: //www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis /info/pdf/9501046.pdf

Svar til #1:

Søg på T-match antenna tuner, og du vil finde masser af information.

Mvh
Hans-Jørgen

Svar til #3:

Godmorgen, tak for inputs. Artiklen i QST January 1995 er netop, hvad jeg har brug for.

Svar til #1:
Det er jo et simpelt T led, så jeg vil anbefale at du indbygger et antennestrøms meter og tuner til max strøm, og derefter min swr.

Den kan i visse tilfælde tunes til swr 1:1 uden at der kommer noget ud antennen :-)

Svar til #5:
Hej Claus.
Citat --" Den kan i visse tilfælde tunes til SWR 1:1 uden at der kommer noget ud i antennen"
Jeg har lavet et utal af T-match tunere, men aldrig oplevet den situation du beskriver. Hvor bli'r "effekten/energien" af??
Har du noget imod at komme op til tavlen og forklare nærmere?
Vy 73 // Asbjørn

Svar til #6:
Det har jeg også oplevet flere gange.

Det korte svar på dit spørgsmål er: Energien fra TX bliver til varme i tuneren og i eventuelle baluner.

Afhængigt af opbygningen af tuneren, især stelvejene, kan der opstå egenresonanser i tunerelementerne, som giver anledning til store cirkulationsstrømme i tuneren med deraf følgende varmeudvikling. Resonanserne kan være ganske skarpe,dvs. med meget højt Q. Resultatet er at strømmen bliver i tuneren i stedet for at rende ud i antennen.

I mange tilfælde kommer der dog lidt ud i antennen. Men mange opdager slet ikke at 90 % af effekten eller mere bliver til varme. De henfører de dårlige rapporter til forholdene.

Fænomenet er ikke begrænset ti Annecke tunere. MFJ Versa Tuner V kan osse lave det nummer. Jeg har prøvet det.

Om det er noget specielt for tunere i T-leds konfiguration skal jeg ikke kunne sige, men jeg har kun set det i T-leds tunere, ikke i Pi- eller L-led.

Til slut en lille historie fra det virkelige liv:

For mange år siden var en radio til CT-båndet (1,6-4,2 MHz) udstyret med en tuner, som havde en egenresonans omkring 13 MHz. Det betød ikke en s... for brugen i CT-båndet. En andet radiofirma kopierede tuneren for at bruge den i en 3-30 MHz radio. Det virkede naturligvis ikke.

vy 73

Ye Olde Radio Engineer

Svar til #6:
Det foregår ganske som Jørgen beskriver, og jeg kun oplevet det med et T led også.

Jeg har en hjemmebygget balanceret tuner der også kan tune til resonans uden antenne tilsluttet, og den har et hysterisk Q uden belastning.

Og der er øjeblikkeligt gnister til at indikere at man har glemt noget :-)

Den kommer snart i OZ.

Svar til #5:
Svar til #7:
Svar til #8:

En løsning kunne være at benytte et bedre antennetuner design?

David Knight G3YNH forslag til en antennetuner; et (evt. roteret og/eller spejlet) L-LC-netværk (fire stk) - med tre måleinstrumenter kaldet "The Match Meter" - diagram, komponentværdier og beskrivelse er i reference.

"The Match Meter" anvendes til at bestemme hvilken region belastningen på udgangen er i (A,B,C,D,E,F). Det afgør hvilken L-LC-netværk som indkobles.

Herefter laves to justeringer - hvis instrumenterne kan nulles (fundet tilpasning) - eller ikke (ingen tilpasning mulig med given frekvens, antenne, L og C - prøv alternativ tilpasningsrute):
R (resistans) nul-viser
jX (fase eller reaktans) nul-viser
G (ledningsevne) nul-viser

Et (evt. roteret og/eller spejlet) L-LC-netværk (fire styk ialt) kan tilpasse impedanser i alle seks regioner - effektivt - sammenlignet med andre mere "avancerede" antennetuner designs:

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antennetuner#Tilpa sning_med_L-netv%C3%A6rk
Citat: "...
Et (evt. roteret og/eller spejlet) L-LC-netværk (fire styk ialt) er det simpleste kredsløb, hvormed man kan tilpasse en belastning med reaktans og resistanstransformation. Desuden kan man analytisk beregne eller måle sig frem til den mest effektive L-LC-netværkskonfiguration. Derfor er et (evt. roteret og/eller spejlet) L-LC-netværk bedre egnet til automatiske (og manuelle) antennetunere, når anvendt med R (resistans), jX (fase eller reaktans) og G (ledningsevne) nul-visere.[7][8]

En antennetuner baseret på L-LC-netværk er mest effektiv i langt de fleste tilfælde.[9]
..."


Referencer:


The Match Meter:
https://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/m50/index.html
Citat: "...
The "Match Meter" was invented by Nigel Williams, G3GFC in about 1980. It is a three-function RF bridge, giving null indications of resistance, conductance and phase error, which can be inserted into the line between a radio transmitter and an antenna matching network (AMU or ATU).
...
...
[kan udvides med 40-80 MHz (50, 70Mhz!) hvis FT50-61 eller FT140-61 kerne anvendes?]
M50 Mk1:
...
[håndtegnet Mk1 diagram vises - er ret simpelt]
...
[Problem ved Mk1#2: Fasekondensatorers værdier er "skumle" - ikke faktor 2 - skyldes måske trafokerne?]
[Problem ved Mk2: Fasekondensatorerne kan blive udsat for fx 1kV ved mistilpasning]
...
British Patent Application No. 8321271, 9th Sept. 1983. [udløbet!]
..."


g3ynh.info: Impedance Matching. Part 1: Basic Principles. By David Knight G3YNH and Nigel Williams G3GFC:
http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_1.ht ml
Citat: "...
The full impedance matching process however, is a two-step operation, which involves both reactance cancellation and resistance transformation; the object of the exercise being to convert an arbitrary impedance to a specific desired value of resistance.
...
Antenna tuner adjustment is usually carried out with the aid of an SWR meter; but as we shall see, SWR is not the best quantity to monitor during the adjustment phase, and an alternative measuring bridge, not much more complicated than an SWR bridge, can lead the operator directly to the most efficient matching solution for a given type of matching network.
...
The first point to note is that the target impedance, 50+j0 ohm, lies on the 50ohm constant resistance line. An initial impedance Z that does not lie on this line can always be brought on to it by moving it around a circle of constant conductance, i.e., by placing a reactance in parallel with it. An intermediate impedance that lies on this line can always be brought to 50+j0 by placing a reactance in series with it. Therefore impedance matching can always (in principle) be carried out in a two-step operation
...
If an initial impedance has a resistive component of less than 50ohm, it can always be manipulated onto the 20mS constant conductance circle by placing a reactance in series with it. An intermediate impedance that lies on the 20mS circle can then always be brought to 50+j0 by placing a reactance in parallel with it.
...
The diagram immediately shows why controversies exist over the choice of best general purpose matching network. The reason is that there isn't one.
..."


Her evalueres kendte solgte antennetuner designs (incl. "avancerede"):

Impedance Matching. Part 2: Popular Matching Networks.
By David Knight G3YNH and Nigel Williams G3GFC:
https://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_2.ht ml
Citat: "...
The input impedance of an antenna system can be assigned (either notionally, or using a Match Meter or measuring bridge) to one of six regions of the Z-plane, as illustrated below. The assignment identifies the AMU adjustments that must be made in order to bring the impedance to 50+j0 Ohms using combinations of series and parallel reactance. Note that if the impedance lies on the boundary between two regions, it may be assigned to one or the other, or moved, depending on the matching network available.
..."


g3ynh.info: Impedance Matching. Part 3: L-Network Solutions. By David Knight G3YNH:
http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_3.ht ml
Citat: "...
The antenna (or arbitrary load) impedance matching problem can be solved (at least in principle) using only L-networks. Such networks naturally give rise to solutions that avoid excessive excursions in the Z-plane; which means that they are likely to be efficient in terms of power transfer. The L-network approach also involves only two variables for two unknowns. This means that it can be implemented in simple algorithms that are guaranteed to terminate; the termination criterion being obtained by using null-indicators for resistance [R], conductance [G] and phase (or reactance) [jX] [see 6.5]
..."


Her evaluerer David Knight sin antennetuner baseret på L-LC-netværk - i fire regioner:

g3ynh.info: Impedance Matching. Part 3: L-Network Solutions. By David Knight G3YNH:
https://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_3.ht ml
Citat: "...
In the example spreadsheet, the coil Q has been adjusted to 100 at various spot frequencies in order to test the conjecture (voiced throughout this chapter) that it is best to choose the matching solution that gives the shortest-path through the Z-plane. The results are shown in the table below; although it is important to understand that they do not constitute scientific proof.
...
30m long centre-fed antenna + ladder line: AMU efficiencies based on coil Q = 100 [a]
[tabel med effektivitet resultater vises for ti frekvenser med bestemt region D,A,F,E]
..."


14 January 2022, practicalantennas.com: antenna tuner efficiency and ratings:
https://practicalantennas.com/feeding/tuner-rati ngs/
backup:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230411214559/https ://practicalantennas.com/feeding/tuner-r atings/
Citat: "...
First, the Unique Wire Tuner (the green Xs on the plot) almost always had the lowest losses of the group. For one thing, it is uses an “L” network, which theoretically will be the lowest loss configuration. But it also is configurable: I used 3 different arrangements of the components in matching this antenna, and two of them were the reverse of how it was designed to be used (due to the low impedances to be matched). Usually I was able to make a good guess what configuration to use based on the measured impedance, but swapping cables when changing bands is not particularly convenient
...
so, which tuner am I going to use? For the moment, probably the Unique Wire Tuner, and I’ll see if there is another configuration that does better on 30m.
..."

Hvis kondensatoren på antennesiden er indstillet til en lille værdi, kan man jo ret let konfigurere en sugekreds med kondensatoren på sendersiden sammen med spolen (med et pænt højt Q) som belastning af senderen, og det skal jo gå galt.

Med en Pi- eller L-leds konfiguration vil antennen jo altid hænge direkte på det højimpedante punkt mellem L og C, dersom man skulle være så uheldig at få dannet en serieresonans (sugekreds) med de ingående komponenter. Dette vil (i en uheldigt konfiguret tuner) dels kvæle Q'et dels bortlede en pæn del af effekten til ja, antennen.

Det vil således næppe være muligt, at ende i en situation som den #5 beskriver med en Pi- eller L-leds tuner.

Jeg har, af ovenstående grund, mere end almindelig svært ved at se ideen i en T-leds tuner.

Mvh
Hans-Jørgen

Svar til #10:
Ideen er at de anvendte komponenter ikke behøver at have særlig store værdier.. I en MFJ tuner er begge caps på sølle 200 pf..

Jeg har ikke oplevet det med et PI led, men selvfølgelig kan det lade sig gøre.

Svar til #1:

Hej Jørgen

Der er langt bedre måde at justere en T-led antennetuner på - havde glemt det tidligere.

Byg et:
The Match Meter:
https://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/m50/index.html
Citat: "...
The "Match Meter" was invented by Nigel Williams, G3GFC in about 1980. It is a three-function RF bridge, giving null indications of resistance, conductance and phase error, which can be inserted into the line between a radio transmitter and an antenna matching network (AMU or ATU).
...
[kan udvides med 40-80 MHz (50, 70Mhz!) hvis FT50-61 eller FT140-61 kerne anvendes?]
M50 Mk1:
[Modstande til sendeside coax-inderleder skal samlet kunne tåle fx 1-2 kV]
...
[håndtegnet Mk1 diagram vises - er ret simpelt]
...
[Problem ved Mk1#2: Fasekondensatorers værdier er "skumle" - ikke faktor 2 - skyldes måske trafokerne?]
[Problem ved Mk2: Fasekondensatorerne kan blive udsat for fx 1kV ved mistilpasning]
...
British Patent Application No. 8321271, 9th Sept. 1983. [udløbet!]
..."


Sæt "Match Meter" på indgangssiden af T-led antennetuneren og følg denne fuldt deterministiske vejledning - og kig på illustrationerne:


Impedance Matching. Part 2: Popular Matching Networks.
By David Knight G3YNH and Nigel Williams G3GFC:
https://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_2.ht ml
Citat: "...
6. The T-match:
...
It is assumed in this case that the capacitors are initially set to maximum capacitance, and the coil to maximum inductance.
...
In the case of load impedances falling in regions A, B, and C, C1[antenneside] is first adjusted until the conductance is 20mS with jX negative (point Z1). L is then reduced until the impedance reaches 50+j0, thereby completing the matching operation.
...
If the impedance lies in regions D, E, or F, L is first reduced until R=50 with jX positive (point Z2). C2[senderside] is then reduced until the impedance reaches 50+j0.
...
Ambiguity in the adjustment of an antenna tuner can be eliminated by the use of an RF measuring bridge giving null indications of R, jX, and G ["Match Meter"], provided that the matching network does not contain ganged matching elements. The three-bridge approach is used in safety-critical automatic impedance matching applications, because it always leads to a solution provided that the matching network is sufficiently adjustable. The SWR-monitoring approach, by contrast, involves guesswork, and cannot be implemented in algorithms that are guaranteed to terminate.
..."

(Det er supersimpelt og resultatet er mere effektivt end metoder med fx en SWR-måler.)

-

Bonus:

T-led modifikation, som har kondensator-kontakter, som ved ønske, ændrer T-led antennetuneren til en L-LC-led antennetuner:

Impedance Matching. Part 2: Popular Matching Networks.
By David Knight G3YNH and Nigel Williams G3GFC:
https://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/z_matcing/part_2.ht ml
Citat: "...
7. Reciprocal L-network:
...
The disadvantage of the reciprocal L network is that, for a given matching range, it requires larger maximum values of L and C than for a T-match. There is however an alternative reciprocal L circuit, which can be implemented as a modification to an existing T-match tuner (with no need to alter the markings on the front panel), and which can revert to the T-configuration if a given load proves to be unmatchable using an L-configuration [15][16].
...
[se illustration]
...
High-voltage variable air-capacitors often undergo 360° rotation even though only 180° is used. If that is the case, a cam can be mounted on the capacitor shaft and arranged to operate a shorting switch during the unused half of the rotation. The ability to revert to a T-network caters for situations in which there is insufficient capacitance to effect a match without using an intermediate transformation (i.e, when both capacitors are needed). The old trick of turning over the corner on one of the rotor plates, incidentally, is not recommended; since it may not make a particularly good contact, and the scarring of the plates that occurs will reduce the capacitor breakdown voltage. A separate article describes the fitting of capacitor shorting switches to the MFJ989C Versatuner.

In addition to increasing efficiency, the reciprocal-L network eliminates one further problem of the T-match, which is that the voltage across the inductor is controlled neither by the transmitter nor by the load. This means that if the loaded Q of the coil becomes excessive, which it can if both capacitors are used, very large voltages can be developed. Large voltages may, in any case, be developed if the load is highly reactive, but the T-network exacerbates the problem.
..."

-

Man kunne også sætte to SPDT kontakter (krav: 12A+ og mange kV ved 1kW formidling) på kondensator-enderne væk fra spolen, som skifter til den "anden side". Så fordobles max kondensatorværdien i den givne L-LC-led.